This is a reply to an FI post dated Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:58 PM
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fallible-ideas/conversations/messages/10915
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On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Elliot Temple curi@curi.us [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Unempty Void unemptyvoid@gmail.com [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Elliot Temple curi@curi.us
>> [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Unempty Void unemptyvoid@gmail.com [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How can i have a good life when i avoid good changes that i have no crits for?
>>>
>>> maybe you can't. some things contradict a good life.
>>
>>
>> is having a bad life inevitable in some situations?
>
> you said "when...". it was a specified condition, much like writing "given that i do X, how can i have a good life?". you'd have to change that part, not do it. you can't have both (keep doing that AND have a good life).
>
>
> there are situations which no one knows how to fix. that's something i've put a lot of work into, but it's very hard.
>
> there are some basic problems i run into. like, if i have ideas that i think would help, but the person won't listen to me in the first place, then i can't help. somehow i have to get attention before i can share good ideas. but before i can share any good ideas, how am i to get attention, since all they have at that point is their current bad ideas that are making them stuck?
i think especially important in that set of current bad ideas are his interpretations of your ideas. those are badly mistaken and that's what he's using to understand you.
now that i say that. i think another especially important set within his current bad ideas is his worldview (i mean the ideas that make up his worldview) which is what he uses to interpret everything.
so, when somebody is trying to understand something you (elliot) said, he's doing it through the lens of his worldview, which causes huge failure of communication and lots of misunderstandings as a result.
so, for example, elliot could be trying to help someone (win/win) but that person might misinterpret elliot's actions as trying to "put him down" (win/lose).
people start out not knowing why they feel this way. it's a gut reaction. something they learned years ago, from dealing with people who actually tried to put people down. so it's second nature now.
but people can change.
leaving the rest because it answers how to change.
>> i don't know why, so maybe first i should ask "how should i figure out
>> why i am having a problem?"
>
> oops i meant "WHY NOT" above, but i guess you understood.
>
> one way is similar to the advice here: http://fallibleideas.com/emotions
>
> calm down, go slower, analyze stuff in retrospect, learn to analyze in real time and see what's going on.
-- Rami
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/fallible-ideas/conversations/messages/10915
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| Re: [FI] How can i have a good life... | |
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Elliot Temple curi@curi.us [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:05 AM, Unempty Void unemptyvoid@gmail.com [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Elliot Temple curi@curi.us
>> [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Unempty Void unemptyvoid@gmail.com [fallible-ideas] <fallible-ideas@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How can i have a good life when i avoid good changes that i have no crits for?
>>>
>>> maybe you can't. some things contradict a good life.
>>
>>
>> is having a bad life inevitable in some situations?
>
> you said "when...". it was a specified condition, much like writing "given that i do X, how can i have a good life?". you'd have to change that part, not do it. you can't have both (keep doing that AND have a good life).
>
>
> there are situations which no one knows how to fix. that's something i've put a lot of work into, but it's very hard.
>
> there are some basic problems i run into. like, if i have ideas that i think would help, but the person won't listen to me in the first place, then i can't help. somehow i have to get attention before i can share good ideas. but before i can share any good ideas, how am i to get attention, since all they have at that point is their current bad ideas that are making them stuck?
i think especially important in that set of current bad ideas are his interpretations of your ideas. those are badly mistaken and that's what he's using to understand you.
now that i say that. i think another especially important set within his current bad ideas is his worldview (i mean the ideas that make up his worldview) which is what he uses to interpret everything.
so, when somebody is trying to understand something you (elliot) said, he's doing it through the lens of his worldview, which causes huge failure of communication and lots of misunderstandings as a result.
so, for example, elliot could be trying to help someone (win/win) but that person might misinterpret elliot's actions as trying to "put him down" (win/lose).
people start out not knowing why they feel this way. it's a gut reaction. something they learned years ago, from dealing with people who actually tried to put people down. so it's second nature now.
but people can change.
leaving the rest because it answers how to change.
>> i don't know why, so maybe first i should ask "how should i figure out
>> why i am having a problem?"
>
> oops i meant "WHY NOT" above, but i guess you understood.
>
> one way is similar to the advice here: http://fallibleideas.com/emotions
>
> calm down, go slower, analyze stuff in retrospect, learn to analyze in real time and see what's going on.
-- Rami
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