Showing posts with label Islam/Religion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Islam/Religion. Show all posts

Monday, March 25, 2024

Invitation to join us in Uniting The Cults

“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.” ― Albert Einstein

Exmuslims in many countries fear for their safety due to apostasy laws. And this isn't going to change without good people like you and me making it happen.

For this reason I believe it is my responsibility and the responsibility of anyone who is capable to work toward a future without apostasy laws.

With that said, I invite you to join me in my pursuit.

My vision is of a world where people recognize love as the goal and rationality as the method to achieve it.

'Uniting The Cults' is a non-profit to rid the world of apostasy laws and here's what we plan to do about it:
  1. Focus on the obstacles to reaching our goal, including working with other people with projects tackling the same obstacles we face. Like social media censorship.

  2. Be an agent of cultural change regarding apostasy laws, and human rights more generally (for example, I'll be podcasting/livestreaming about these issues).
  3. Help people struggling with Islam (and similar things).

Why the name 'Uniting The Cults'?

Any group is a cult to the extent that its members do cult behaviors.

For example, many universities will fire a professor if they don't share the university's views on certain things. This is what cults do in order to discourage disobedience. And it's obviously anti-scientific.

Richard Feynman coined the term Cargo-Culting to refer to the act of doing what looks like science but is actually pseudo-science. He said even physicists are making this mistake. He dedicated his entire 1974 Caltech commencement speech to this topic. He titled it Cargo-Cult Science. You can read it here or watch it here. And he presented this as a problem, which clearly lays out the framework of the solution. Here's my answer to Feynman's speech -- The Scientific Approach to Anything and Everything.

So join me in uniting the cults as we create a united world governed by scientific thinking.

We need your help!

Do a meeting with me to be published on the UTC podcast for the purpose of figuring out how you can help us. The idea is to establish where we have a need that you can fill with your abilities. Contact me here.

Join our subreddit (r/UnitingTheCults) where we're updating people on the progress of our projects.


Thursday, July 14, 2022

We should organize all of the good intellectual tools created in all fields into a unified system

The standard thing people say about science, even from people who are pro-science, is that science cannot be used to study non-empirical matters. I used to think this. I don't anymore. I figured this out by studying Richard Feynman's 1974 Caltech commencement speech, now titled Cargo Cult Science. Here's a reproduction of that speech together with a tiny bit of explanation from me clarifying what I think is the most important takeaway.

The scientific approach is a body of knowledge about how to create and improve our knowledge. Some of it relates to only empirical matters while some of it relates to all matters, empirical or non-empirical.

I think people would disagree with me by saying that philosophy, not science, is needed for non-empirical matters. I think this is wrong for a few reasons.

Consider that people in the field of philosophy have developed intellectual tools that are useful to all matters, empirical and non-empirical. We should all adopt those methods. This goes back to the pre-Socratics of Ancient Greece.

Consider also that people in the fields of the hard and soft sciences have developed intellectual tools that are useful to all matters too, empirical and non-empirical. Many people would disagree with me here and say that these tools only apply to empirical matters. They're wrong. Tons of it works for non-empirical matters. I give examples in the links below.

So the right approach is to adopt the methods of both philosophy and science, and apply them universally. Now that means that sometimes some methods won't apply because you're dealing with non-empirical matters and the methods only work for empirical matters. That's fine. But note, just knowing which things are empirical matters vs non-empirical matters is not obvious. We need methods even to differentiate between these two buckets of things.

More generally, what we need to do is organize all of the good intellectual tools from all fields into a unified consistent system. This allows us to know in what situations some tools should be used and which are not applicable. So without organizing the intellectual tools into a unified system, we end up arbitrarily using the wrong tools in some situations and arbitrarily not using the right tools in other situations.

And this system deserves a name. I've chosen the name "the scientific approach". 
Other words that work just fine are "rationality", "reason", or even "epistemology", as long as everyone involved knows what is meant by these terms. The reason I prefer to use the term "the scientific approach" is to specify that tons of the intellectual tools created in the fields of the sciences are crucial and because I think tons of people ignore them on account of them thinking that these tools only work for empirical matters.

Note that Isaac Newton, now referred to as a physicist, was originally called a natural philosopher. Science is an extension of philosophy. They are the same thing.

A philosopher who ignores the intellectual tools created in the sciences is not a good philosopher. An anti-science philosopher is no good.

A scientist who ignores the intellectual tools created in philosophy is not a good scientist. An anti-philosophy scientist is no good.

For details of my take on the scientific approach, see my essay The Scientific Approach To Anything And Everything. Note that this is not a full accounting of all the intellectual tools. It's just a summary of some of the main ideas that apply across all fields. For example, I didn't explain the double blind study that is used in medical research.

What do you think? Do you see any flaws in what I said? I welcome critical feedback because I want to improve my knowledge.

=========== discussion =============

I originally posted this post in r/JordanPeterson and I got a lot of good discussion. Here are the best comment threads clarifying many issues that people had questions about:

3 examples of intellectual tools that apply universally to all matters, empirical or non-empirical, created in the hard sciences

Demonstration of the scientific approach applied to questions about god

Explanation of the scientific approach applied to morality

How does the scientific approach help with deciding between values?

Demonstration of the scientific approach applied to ‘who should I marry?’

The scientific approach involves refutation not proof

Have I engaged with the world of philosophy of science? Yes.


Sunday, March 21, 2021

On morality: Is it from religion, science, or both? Ramzy Maclon & Rami Rustom Session #1

I had a great discussion with Ramzy Maclon in my group Enlightening The Arab World about whether science or religion is the source of morality.


Below is the discussion with some editing for clarity and brevity.

The discussion started when he posted to my group with the following (with facebook's translation):

سأل مسلم ملحد: كيف تعرف الصواب من الخطأ الأخلاقي من دون دين؟
- الملحد: عن طريق عقلي؟
- مسلم: وكيف يعرف عقلك الصواب من الخطأ الأخلاقي؟
- الملحد: أسأل اليابانيين؟
- المسلم: وكيف يعرف اليابانيون الصواب من الخطأ الأخلاقي؟
- الملحد: عن طريق العقل
- المسلم: وكيف يعرف العقل الصواب من الخطأ الأخلاقي؟
- الملحد: أسأل اليابانيون
المسلم:
A Muslim asked an atheist: How do you know right from moral error without religion?
- Atheist: through my mind?
- Muslim: How does your mind know right from moral error?
- Atheist: Ask the Japanese?
- Muslim: And how do Japanese know right from moral error?
- Atheist: through reason
- Muslim: How does the right mind know from moral error?
- Atheist: Ask the Japanese
The Muslim:



شوكت كريمي

There's a real way to know right from wrong away from your conversation with the strawman


Rami Rustom

How would you reply to the OP?


شوكت كريمي

It's a straw man . No atheist will talk like this and there is actually away to know what is right and what is wrong

Whether the act is beneficial or harmful to the individual and group .
That will decide on the morality of the action


Rami Rustom

yes I basically agree with you.

I think what also matters is the extent to which someone had the requisite knowledge to do the “moral” action.

Ramzy Maclon

Beneficiary and harmfulness are relative religious terms. They can't be explained on the base of logical reasoning, or on the base of science with it's deterministic or quantum natural laws, or on the base of evolution theory with it futility random purposeless genetic mutations, or on the base of secularity view of the universe as meaninglessness materialistic phenomena.


Rami Rustom

Why do you believe that beneficiary/harmfulness is subjective/relative ?

You didn’t explain.


Ramzy Maclon

What is that makes some things right and others wrong?


Rami Rustom

We use the scientific approach.


Ramzy Maclon

So please tell me how could you prove rape wrong by using the "scientific approach "


Rami Rustom

Science doesn’t work by “prov[ing]” things.

I know people say that about science but people are confused.

Science works like this. We start with some theories. It doesn’t matter how bad they are. It’s theories that we are using in real life.

Then we find mistakes in the theories and sometimes we find fixes to those mistakes. That takes the form of new theories.

And we keep doing that forever.

So we’re always going from flawed theories to less flawed theories to even less flawed theories.

Does that make sense ?


Ramzy Maclon

No, it makes nonsense. Science -like evolution theory- doesn't tell us what must we do or what we must not. Science just explains and describes how things happen.


Rami Rustom

Do you want to learn about my view ?

If so, I can explain to you in detail how we create moral knowledge using the scientific approach.

Are you interested?


Ramzy Maclon

Yes, I would appreciate that


[to be continued...]

Tuesday, March 16, 2021

7 LEVELS OF HONESTY/DISHONESTY

Creating and spreading lies contributes to destroying peoples' minds. Some of the people involved in spreading lies are more responsible than others. And some people are helping reveal the lies. I describe 7 levels of people involved in spreading lies and revealing lies.

Level 1

  • leader who created the lies

  • tries to get more people to spread the lies with him

Level 2

  • follower who knows they are lies

  • likes the idea of spreading the lies

  • tries to get more people to spread the lies with him

Level 3

  • follower who doesn’t know they are lies

  • tries to get more people to spread the lies with him

Level 4

  • follower who knows they are lies

  • doesn’t like the idea of spreading the lies

  • but spreads the lies anyway for fear of physical retaliation or social punishment

  • inadvertently gets more people to spread the lies with him

Level 5

  • ex-follower or never-follower

  • but stays quiet about the lies for fear of social punishment

Level 6

  • ex-follower or never-follower

  • detractor spreading criticism about the lies

Level 7

  • ex-follower or never-follower

  • detractor trying to convert followers to ex-followers

  • uniter of all the levels of people


Examples:

Mohammed, the prophet of Islam, was level 1 regarding Islam. His inner circle were level 2. I was a level 3. My parents were level 3. My granddad was level 4. There were many level 4s in history — imagine all the scientists and great thinkers of the Middle East who wanted to keep their heads.

People who were level 5 for Islamic lies are those who are afraid to lose their jobs, or cause fights with their spouses, or get cancelled by the leftist social media.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is level 6 regarding Islam. Maybe she wants to be level 7. Maybe she is a 7. I'm not sure what being a 7 would look like. For one thing, she's not involved in any online public discussion group where she and others are learning from each other. She does write books and articles (and now she has a podcast) and does interviews but that alone is not effective compared to also participating in critical discussion with others.

I think that approximately everybody believes, follows, and inadvertently spreads some lies. So even if they are level 6 (and trying to be level 7) for Islamic lies, they are level 3 for some other lies.

Many western parents are level 2 for the Santa Clause lie.

Tuesday, August 18, 2020

God is slow to anger

I've heard from christians that god is slow to anger. (I recall that that is written in the Bible).

I think that is intended to teach the lesson that people should be slow to anger. And I think it admits that anger is good sometimes (meaning that people should do it sometimes).

I think that’s bad. Anger never helps. It’s always sabotaging. Anger is like punishment. It’s designed to hurt people. It’s designed to discourage thinking/deciding for oneself.


People get confused about this in a few ways. 


One way they get confused is to think I mean that anger should be shamed. I don't mean that. Anger and shame are two sides of the same coin. Anger and shame kinda do the same thing. They are designed to hurt. They are designed to encourage someone to pick a side of a disagreement without first having resolved the disagreement.


Another way people get confused is to think that since some people do good things with their anger, then anger is good. They'll mention people like MLK and how he turned his anger into (good) action. This is confused. They are treating anger as a package deal that can't be separated. Anger can be viewed as at least two parts. Part one is this: I want something to change. Part two is this: I choose to hurt someone in order to encourage obedience (sometimes people are angry at themselves). Part one is fine. Part two is bad. You can decouple the two parts. You can have part one without part two.


Another way people get confused is to think that I'm saying that one should suppress his anger. I'm not saying that. That doesn't work because it means ignoring your anger instead of problem-solving in order to fix things. Suppressing your emotions is problem-avoidance not problem-solving.


To change your emotional makeup such that you get angry less (fewer triggers, catch your anger and calm down earlier, respond better to people pointing out your anger, etc etc) you'll need to make philosophy a big part of your life. You'll need to do lots of relevant reading, lots of journaling, lots of discovery of yourself and human nature in general, lots of problem-solving, lots of critical discussion (with yourself and others), etc etc. And it's better to do this kind of thing with others who are also doing it. That way we can learn from each other instead of each of us trying to recreate the wheel. The Fallible Ideas community is one such community (I don't know of another one). 

Wednesday, August 12, 2020

"So what if it’s placebo? If it works then I'm fine with it."

# Initial exploration:

I recall somebody saying something to the effect of: "So what if it’s placebo? If it works then I'm fine with it."

The context was a discussion where somebody believed in god because he felt good because he believed in god. And he knew about the placebo effect. And I guess he wanted to defend against the question, "how do you know it's not placebo effect?" So instead of deciding that it's not placebo, he decided that even if it's placebo, that's fine. This means knowingly fooling yourself.

Sunday, July 26, 2020

Using emotions to trump reason

# Initial exploration

Lots of people do the following:
  • They believe false things in order to manipulate their feelings.
  • e.g. they are worried about something related to a family member. they think about the possible outcomes. then they choose the best case scenario as the thing that's going to happen. then, when they find out that the best case scenario is not going to happen, they are crushed (extreme negative emotion).
  • Imagine someone who believes in god because (according to him) it makes him feel good. He knows about the placebo effect and says, "so what? let's say it is because of placebo effect. It works! I feel better. So I'm fine with it" No it doesn't work. Your feeling is temporary. When you are finally faced with the truth that you're avoiding, you will feel horrible because your life sucks ass.
  • Imagine being in a car that is almost out of gas and you're concerned that you might run out before reaching a gas station. And then you pray. For what? Whether or not you have enough gas to reach the next gas station is a fact that's already true. Are you asking god to add gas to your tank? Are you asking god to put a new gas station within your reach? I think they pray as a way to hope for the best case scenario. They are believing false things in order to manipulate their feelings.
  • Imagine having a lottery ticket where the lotto numbers have already been reported. Your ticket is either a winner or a loser. You just don't know yet because you haven't checked the ticket against the winning numbers. And then you pray. Why? Are you asking god to change your ticket numbers? Are you asking god to change the winning numbers? I think they pray as a way to hope for the best case scenario. They are believing false things in order to manipulate their feelings.
It’s backwards. We should put truth/honesty as the highest priority. And then if we find that our feelings are incompatible with the truth, then we should change our feelings to make them compatible with the truth.

Friday, July 24, 2020

When rational memes lose against static memes

# Initial exploration - session 1 - 7/24/2020
  • I noticed a recurring thing in people.
    • Suppose two people are having an in-person discussion. 
    • PersonA says something to PersonB and PersonB disagrees with it.
      • It could be something as simple as the following scenario. PersonA and PersonB are talking about why PersonB was upset about an immediately previous in-person discussion with PersonC. PersonB thought PersonC meant X when he said "it". PersonA instead thinks that PersonC meant Y when he said "it". And so PersonA asked PersonB, "what do you think PersonC meant by "it"?" 
    • Suppose that in the moment of it being said, PersonB gets emotional, raises their voice, and swears that he's right and PersonA is wrong. 
    • PersonA tries to reason with PersonB, saying things like:
      • Continuing my hypothetical example above:
      • "I don't know why you believe PersonC meant X."
      • "How did you rule out that PersonC meant Y instead?"
      • "ok so we believe different things about what happened. And we have different perspectives about how to figure it out. You do faith while I do reason."
    • Suppose further that PersonB's emotional state escalates with each instance of PersonA speaking about the subject and not immediately saying that he believes PersonB. The exchange ends when PersonB runs away from the discussion in an extremely aggressive emotional state of crying and yelling "nobody believes me" or "nobody listens to me".
    • Some people do this in such a way where they get worse over time. They get instantly angry anytime anybody says something that in any way indicates that they don't agree with them. They believe their theories with such strong faith that they effectively ignore criticisms and rival theories to their own. They effectively treat themselves as god. (Some of them actually say they are god.) They lose touch with reality. They make up unreasonable theories like that their friends and family are out to get them. So they run away from their families and also can't function on their own because they can't hold a job or keep any relationships with anyone. They also won't accept help from therapists or any other experts. And then they become homeless. And they go in and out of mental hospitals. They commit crimes while being proud of what they're doing because they think it's good (according to them, god told them they should do it). They also feel ashamed of what they're doing because sometimes their reasonable side crops up and questions their actions. But their bad side suppresses that thinking with hypnotic mental habits like saying certain phrases as a way to stop thinking (some people pray or do the "speaking in tongues" thing, while some people do things like repeat "things will get better, things will get better, things will get better", effectively fulfilling the same function as a prayer).
  • Connecting this to static memes:
    • This is what static memes do. When they activate, you feel bad (upset, crying, angry), which discourages you from continuing thinking and discussing about a disagreement, effectively causing you to ignore criticism and rival theories of your pet theories.
    • Rational memes compete with static memes. 
    • Rational memes and static memes can both be active at the same time.

# session 2 - 7/25/2020
  • how did they get that way?
  • it's a tantrum. he was punished as a child and he created coping mechanisms.
    • in other words, the static memes replicated from parent to child.
    • punishments make disagreements painful.
      • win/lose
    • people focus on acting in ways that try to avoid pain.
      • they create an association between disagreements and mental suffering.
    • in the future, those people experience mental suffering when people disagree with them.
      • this happens whether it's a win/win or a win/lose situation.
        • they treat all situations as win/lose (or a subset of situations from the set of all situations)
        • so like even if one is trying to rationally discuss a disagreement (win/win), the person can treat it as if it's its win/lose
      • that mental state has triggers associated with it such that anytime they enter the mental state, the associated trigger causes them to have an emotion/thought (e.g. "nobody listens to me!")

# session 3 - 7/26/2020
    • what sort of disagreements was I talking about above?
      • not just disagreements between two people. I'm also talking about disagreements between one's expectations and one's understanding of reality.
    • how is this stuff connected to wanting social approval?
      • people who feel mental pain when others disagree with them are mad because they didn't get the social approval that they want.
        • this doesn't account for situations where nobody else is involved.
    • lots of people think that discussions are for changing other people's minds. they don't view them as purposed for helping themselves be persuaded.
      • suppose someone believes that god healed their leg. suppose that he knows that he can get evidence that could refute his theory. And then he says that he doesn't need to get evidence because he's not interested in trying to convince other people. So he thinks evidence is only for convincing other people.


    # Acknowledgements

    I learned about static memes and a lot of the stuff above from FI and BOI.


    Monday, August 31, 2015

    Discussion with a moral relativist about whether morality is objective

    this is a discussion i had with somebody on fb about whether morality is objective. he called it "moral realism" so i continued to use that term with him. i've included just the most relevant parts of the discussion.



    On Mon, Aug 28, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Sam Harris and Islam are the same stuff. Moral realism wrapped up in a hateful, polarizing package.

    are you disagreeing with the moral realism part?



    On Mon, Aug 28, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Of course. I am an atheist because there is no evidence for god(s). I am not a moral realist for the same reason - lack of evidence.
    >
    > Moral realism is an artifact of religiosity and theocracy. If one is an atheist and still clings to moral realism, all that tells me is one has stopped questioning much, much too soon. Religion comes with a lot of baggage, from moral realism to retributivism dressed up as justice. Saying one does not believe in god(s) is only scratching the surface.

    why do you believe that more questioning of that idea would necessarily lead to realizing that revenge is not justice? it’s because you believe that the goal post is the truth, and questioning leads one closer to *the truth*. hence moral realism.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > When were we objectively morally right about gender equality?

    Maybe never. But the idea that men should have legal rights that women don't have, is wrong.

    > And why so?

    you mean, why do I believe we're right today and that people were wrong in the past? because we know of flaws in their theory that they didn't know about.

    > The very least a moral realist *must* recognize is that we were right at some point or wrong at some point.

    Which I've acknowledged.

    > And for the record, just because I express a moral opinion (and that's what I recognize it is) does not mean I am become a moral realism, thinking my moral opinion is the absolute, objective truth.

    ?! so you're saying that having a moral opinion while being a moral realist means that the moral realist believes that his opinion is the absolute objective truth? why do you believe that? I'm a moral realist AND I have moral opinions AND I don't believe that any of my opinions are absolute objective truth. You think I'm wrong to hold these views but you haven't explained how I'm wrong. Can you explain that?



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Interesting. So what is your support/evidence/justification for "...For example, the idea that men should have legal rights that women don't have, is wrong."

    Searching for support/justification is flawed epistemology. The best epistemology known to date expains that we need to look for flaws/problems in our theories. And that a theory is treated as rejected only if it has known flaws/problems. And a theory is accepted if you can't find any flaws/problems with it.

    Do you see any flaws or problems with the idea that women should have the same rights as men? I don't.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Alright, so how do we know that liberalism is the truth?

    Find a flaw. Explain the flaw. Then submit that explanation to criticism. If that explanation survives criticism, then as far as we know, the explanation is correct. And if that happens, then we've either rejected it, or we changed it to account for the flaw in the old version. And if we don’t find a flaw (in liberalism), then its our best knowledge about the truth.

    Though we could be wrong about it. So we should be open to changing our minds. We should be open to new criticism and new rival theories.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > That would make it sound *almost* like a scientific endeavor, but without the final arbiter (that empirical reality serves as in science).

    Emprical evidence isn't the final arbiter. Evidence can be MISINTERPRETED. So a scientist (and anybody) must lookout for misinterpreting the evidence. So the relevant question here is: How does one analyze evidence in order to catch one's misinterpretations of the evidence?

    > Tell me, how do we know when we have found a flaw?

    If you think you found a flaw, and you don't see any criticisms of the flaw you see, then as far as you know the flaw is the best knowledge you have about the truth.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Honestly, though, if that is your view of morality, there doesn't seem to be much room for the confidence most moral realists in the past have craved when making their decrees. I mean does truth really amount to some variant of argumentum ad populum without any sort of arbiter?

    Truth is not judged by popular vote. 

    Truth is judged by critical discussion. If a theory survives criticism, then it is accepted as the best knowledge to date about the truth. If a theory doesn’t survive criticism, then it is rejected for having known flaws. Theories that survive criticism are non-refuted (no known flaws). Theories that didn’t survive criticism are refuted (has known flaws).

    > That hardly seems like a process to truth... I guess truth won't really mean much any more, will it? Now "knowledge," and "truth" are watered down to nothing.
    >
    > So, you would never say you have the moral truth, but you hold that there is moral truth nonetheless, is that correct?

    Yes. It's the same as in science. We have knowledge of the truth (of the physical world). But none of our current scientific theories are THE FINAL COMPLETE TRUTH. They are all flawed. But we don't reject a accepted theory UNTIL a flaw is made known.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:

    > Actually, in a very important way, empirical reality is the final arbiter for science. Yes, there is the possibility of misinterpretation, and there are deeper problems (like that different theories could conceivably be just as scientifically valid for the same phenomena), but in the end we measure them against empirical reality.

    What would you do in this situation? Say you have 2 scientific theories competing to explain some aspect of physical reality and they both are consistent with all known evidence.

    Then how do you choose between the 2? Empirical reality won’t help here unless you can find NEW evidence that contradicts 1 of these theories leaving the other untouched.

    But even if that happened there’s nothing FINAL about it. Somebody could find new evidence. Or somebody could find new criticism of an existing explanation of evidence, thus refuting that empirical-explanation, thus saving some previously-refuted scientific theory. So FINAL arbiter doesn’t make sense.

    or is there a reason you are using the “final” qualifier that i’m not aware of?

    > What, if anything, is the final arbiter for your position? 

    The tentative “final” arbiter is a simple test: has the theory survived criticism or not?

    > It sure would be helpful to find it, because as it is we are just guessing between internally consistent but contradictory "theories." (Not to be confused with scientific theories.)

    I don’t believe that your theory is internally consistent. And I think you haven't really given me the opportunity to explain what i understand about this to you.



    On Mon, Aug 30, 2015 somebody offlist:


    > To be honest, our perspectives seem similar in some ways.

    I agree.

    > I do not subscribe to what I would call the conceit of moral truth. Your position does not seem to mesh well with the desires of the "confused" moral realists to make and defend moral prescriptions. My perspective certainly doesn’t.

    Can you tell me more of what you mean by “moral prescriptions”? Do you mean something like where people are supposed to obey these “prescriptions” in the sense that they have to do it even if they don’t agree with it? Like against their will?

    Demanding obedience is morally wrong. By that I mean that there is a better way that is known. Instead of demanding obedience, you should request an audience so that your voice may be heard. Why? For the purpose of alerting people of mistakes or rival theories that (a) they didn’t already know and (b) they would be glad if you stuck your neck out to tell them about.

    And when I say that you should do X, I'm including an implicit "but only if you wholeheartedly agree with me about you doing X". I will never demand that you do what I say on my authority. Because i reject authority in truth-seeking. I also don't even want you to *voluntarily* accept what I say on my authority. again because I reject authority in truth-seeking. 

    You should do your own independent judgement, not rely on me. I could be wrong, so you should judge things for yourself to help catch the mistakes that I make. You can't catch the mistakes in my ideas if you blindly accept what I say as truth. And even if I'm right, and you blindly accept what I say as truth, you could easily misunderstand me. so without doing your own independent judgement, you'd be making tons of misunderstandings and believing all sorts of false things that you would be falsely attributing to me.

    > What, precisely, is the difference between holding that there is unreachable truth and not bothering with truth at all?

    The difference is this:

    Unreachable truth - I cannot reach perfection but I can do a good job of it. I can make progress continuously. Tomorrow will be better than today (on average). How? Because I’m finding and fixing flaws in my knowledge. That’s what progress is. It’s evolution.

    Not bothering with truth at all - I cannot reach perfection so I’ll just stop trying. Stagnation is ok. I’ll just learn to deal with the suffering. That’s what everybody else does. And they seem happy.

    > Especially when there isn't even any way to determine when there is or is not a flaw in the moral "theory?”

    Sure there is. Whatever theory you are considering, you need to consider rival theories too. And you need to use criticism to rule out all but one. The theory that survives criticism is the one that is deemed non-refuted. The rival theories that are criticized are deemed refuted. And this is tentative since new criticism can be found in the future.

    Now there are nuance situations like ‘what do i do when i have two rivals theories that are not criticized?’. all the questions (AFAIK) that have been asked about this have been answered (AFAIK).

    > Is it a "point of the journey" moment? If our moral theory is always flawed, and we recognize it as such, from whence does any confidence in our moral prescriptions arise?

    hmm, i’m trying to use my interpretation of what you mean by “moral prescription” and it doesn’t seem to fit. i thought you mean “demanding obedience” to the moral prescription.

    can you clarify?

    > To be fair, you asked me the same question in a different form earlier. I would respond "in the democratic process of negotiation." I'm not sure how you would respond.

    what is the context? do you mean 2-person interaction? 5-person interaction? a whole nation? or do you mean all of these?

    > A major problem for you is that most are not going to understand moral realism the way you do.

    what kind of problem is it for me? do you mean like, it’ll make communication with them more difficult? like with more misunderstandings?

    or do you mean some other kind of problem?

    > Rightly or wrongly, they are likely to dismiss it as not giving them the power to prescribe (although they might enjoy the elasticity of it).

    do you mean “the power to [demand obedience]”? or do you mean something else?

    > For most people morality is about having prescriptive power. Do you give it to them in some way I am not seeing?

    No.

    Morality is not authoritarian. Nobody is infallible.

    Knowledge is not authoritarian. Nobody is infallible.

    Knowledge is created by people. People are fallible so the knowledge we create is fallible.

    To clarify this, see: http://fallibleideas.com/reason

    -- Rami

    Package deal. Moral realism and demanding obedience to one’s moral views.


    Some people who drop their belief in god also drop the idea that there is objective truth in morality (aka moral realism).

    Why do they do that? It’s because they believe that moral realism implies demanding obedience to one’s moral views. They treat moral realism and demanding obedience to one’s moral views as a package deal - as if you can’t have one without the other. And since they are against the idea that people should demand obedience to their moral views, they reject the whole package, instead of just rejecting the one idea they have an actual problem with.


    The thing is, the best knowledge we have to date about the truth regarding morality is that it is wrong to demand obedience to one's moral views.

    Thursday, July 9, 2015

    What’s Next For The Arab World?

    What’s Next For The Arab World?

    In my last essay I explored the question: What’s Holding Arabs Back?[1] The conclusion I drew is that not enough Arabs have embraced Enlightenment values, like progress, criticism, freedom of speech, freedom of the pursuit of happiness, tolerance of dissent, respect for reason and science, and respect for the rule of law. I also pointed out that this is a soluble problem. But what exactly would it take to solve it? What would it take for a critical mass of Arabs to embrace Enlightenment values and usher in a new era of progress for them? To address this question it’s important to point out some fundamental differences between the Arab world and the West.


    Philosophy

    One major difference between us is in how we understand morality - the branch of philosophy about how people should live their lives. In the Arab world the dominant worldview says morality is about avoiding doing what you want - following a set of obligations dictated by God or society. It's about living a life of suppressing your desires for fear of punishment. Many Westerners, on the other hand, have embraced a very different worldview that says morality is about getting what you want, while first checking if what you want is good. It's about living a life of embracing your rationally-considered desires in search of reward - where reward comes in the form of mutual benefit.

    This is a clash of cultures, and it boils down to a fundamental difference in how each worldview understands reality. The fear-oriented morality hinges on the false premise that conflicts of interest between people are inherent to human nature. So people with this worldview mistakenly think that in any human interaction there must be a winner and a loser - that it's impossible for everybody involved to win. So they think that there is always someone taking advantage of someone else. They think there is always the oppressor and the oppressed. 

    In contrast, the merit-oriented mentality explains that there is a natural harmony between humans. That conflicts of interest are not inherent to human nature. That any human interaction can be win/win - where everybody gets what they want and nobody sacrifices anything. You go after a win/win with somebody or you avoid interacting with him at all. So, a win/lose can and should always be avoided. And if a win/lose occurs it is because somebody acted irrationally and immorally.


    Effects on psychology 

    This difference in understanding makes a huge impact on people. Ones philosophy greatly affects how he thinks, how he feels, and how he acts. As an example, consider that somebody who doesn’t believe that mutual benefit is possible will misinterpret the intentions of somebody who is striving for mutual benefit with him.

    Take me and this essay as an example. I am writing this essay for mutual benefit. I benefit from writing it, explaining my ideas, exposing them to criticism so that I can improve my understanding. And others benefit from learning from it. 

    But some Arab Muslims will misinterpret my intentions because of their unquestioned, and in many cases, subconscious assumption that there always has to be a loser. They will think that I’m trying to cheat them. That I’m trying to hurt them by encouraging them to betray their way of life. They will cling to the age old conspiracy theory that Jews have paid me off - that I don’t actually believe what I’m saying and that I’m doing it only for money. 

    But they are wrong. I only want good for people. I want good for everybody, even the evil people in the world. I want them to turn good. That’s better for everybody! I don't want them to be harmed. I don't want punishment. Punishment itself is evil. It's the win/lose morality that views punishment as righteous. And it's the merit-oriented win/win morality that implies that punishment is evil. 

    It’s sad that they misunderstand me. I wish they would take my words at face value, that they believe me when I say that I don't want to hurt them, that I don't want them to lose. I want all of us to be winners! That's better for me.

    Now keep in mind that the West hasn't fully embraced the win/win mentality. There are still lots of Westerners who believe the false premise that conflicts of interest are inherent to human nature. Or they don't have this belief explicitly but many of their ideas contradict the win/win mentality as if they did have a belief that humans are inherently at odds - for example some westerners don't value freedom or criticism.

    Here's a summary of the two opposing worldviews:

    Win/lose worldview
    Win/win worldview
    People are naturally at odds
    Natural harmony between people 
    Fear-oriented
    Merit-oriented
    Status-seeking
    Truth-seeking
    Run from shame
    Eager for self-improvement
    Hide ones mistakes
    Find and fix ones mistakes
    Stagnation
    Unbounded progress
    Hates criticism
    Loves criticism


    The bare minimum of agreement

    With such a striking difference in how we understand the world, how can we get along? Well that's sort of the point. In order to get along with each other we must agree on a bare minimum of things. For example if we don't agree that murder, rape, and theft are wrong, then we can’t get along. If we don't agree that initiation of violence and threats of violence are wrong then we can’t live in peace. This is why governments made up of people who value Enlightenment traditions put murderers, rapists, and thieves in jail, to protect people’s freedom to live peacefully, to live in harmony with others.

    Now a lot of people in the West defend the Arab world saying that the West props up dictators there. Yes, a dictatorship is bad compared to a democracy. But a democracy isn’t even a possibility yet in the Arab world. Most Arabs today don't even know the basics of self-governance and democracy. So when they have the opportunity to replace a secular dictator, they end up replacing him with a religious dictator. This is a major barrier. Democracy has no chance in a country where most people align themselves politically by their tribe and religion instead of aligning themselves by their ideas.

    So, the diplomatic policy of the West has been to give financial aid to the dictators that share some level of agreement with Western interests. For example, the U.S. gave billions in financial aid annually to the dictator of Egypt Hosni Mubarak because he wanted peace with Israel and economic ties with the U.S. It was a necessary step in the right direction because previous to that Egypt was in a constant state of war with Israel.

    Now I’m not saying there is no reason for hope. A few years ago, immediately after the Arab Spring, King Abdullah II of Jordan made an important move towards democracy. There are now many political parties, which means that Jordanians are starting to align themselves politically by their ideas instead of by their tribe or religion. This means that any political party could have members from any tribe or religion. 

    This is a start in the right direction but there's a long way to go before there is a critical mass of people good enough to operate a democratic government. The existence of a democratic government does not guarantee that the current rulers won't destroy the democratic engine by outlawing all other political parties. That's what the Nazis did, and not enough Germans opposed them.

    A crucial point here is that bad rulers should be able to be replaced peacefully. If this sort of mechanism isn't in place, then people will resort to replacing bad rulers violently. But it won't work if enough people represented by a government consider violent revolution as their main tool to oust bad rulers. Violent revolution should be the last resort because it destroys any existing infrastructure necessary for non-violent replacement of rulers.

    People need to respect the non-violent way of changing rulers. If you aren't happy with your current rulers, then you should make it your responsibility to vote against them in the coming elections and to persuade others to vote the same. In the mean time, be patient. Or, you could move to a country that better aligns with your values. 


    Charges of hypocrisy 

    Some Westerners read what I have to say about Arabs and tell me that I shouldn't be judging and condemning them. So I want to address these charges.  

    First, I don't condemn people. Condemning a person means that you don't think they can improve. Like some people will say "you're going to hell." That means they are making a prediction that the person will never change for the better. I don't do that. Arabs can improve. That's one of the main themes of my essays. 

    If you read this essay and come to the conclusion that I'm condemning Arabs then the problem is that you are operating under the win/lose mentality, because it's that mentality that falsely implies that people can't change their flaws. The win/win worldview explains that any person can change any part of his mind. There is no law of nature preventing it.

    Second, I do judge Arabs but these people are confused about the meaning here. They act like judging is bad. Well what does it mean to judge? It means to criticize flaws. Now you can view this as a negative thing, since a flaw is negative. But a better view is that criticism is positive because learning about a flaw gives you the opportunity to correct it. So criticism is good. Judgement is good. And for the same reason, not judging people is bad because it hides flaws and causes them to persist. And pressuring me and others to stop judging people amounts to spreading evil because you are working to silence us, to stop us from helping people fix their flaws. Viewing judgement as negative is part of the win/lose mentality, and viewing judgement as positive is part of the win/win mentality.

    Now a third charge that some Westerners level against me is that I shouldn't be criticizing Arabs for lack of democracy while my own country, the U.S., doesn't have the ideal democracy. This charge doesn't make sense. It's like saying that I shouldn't criticize somebody because I'm not perfect. This is a mistake because if everybody went by this standard, then nobody would ever criticize anybody else since nobody is perfect. So the criticism engine would completely halt which would usher in a new era of stagnation. Progress is made possible because of criticism! 

    Take note that this anti-criticism view is part of the win/lose mentality. In contrast, the win/win mentality embraces criticism for what it is, wonderful!

    A fourth charge that some Westerners level at me is that my ideas could be used as a propaganda tool resulting in future invasions by the U.S. This one I'm really shocked to hear. My essay is clear that initiation of violence and threats of violence is wrong. We should not be invading countries unless we've been invaded or there is a credible threat of attack. An example of a credible threat of attack is Iran who is making nuclear weaponry while simultaneously calling for the complete destruction of Israel. 

    Other than eminent war like this, we should not be invading countries. We should not try to topple a dictator to replace it with a democracy. Instead, our governments should use diplomacy to encourage dictators to make steps towards democracy, for their own good.

    Now if the people of a dictatorship revolt, and if those revolutionaries show signs of wanting a democracy and knowing how to do it, then we could consider helping them create a democracy while also helping them have a military chance against their dictator. But be clear that it is they who must make the first move. We should only play a helping role. We should not be spearheading any violent revolutions. Spearheading a violent revolution would mean going against the people of that country. We would be acting as if they want our help when we have no reason to believe that they do want our help. That would be a win/lose situation. That's evil. 


    Agent of change

    One thing that’s clear is that diplomacy isn’t enough. A democracy can only work if the people have the values necessary for a democracy to work. So what’s needed is something that could help Arabs learn these values. 

    What's needed is an agent of change. What’s needed is ideas. Now one major hurdle here is that most Arabs only know Arabic. They can't read articles, books, or websites written in English or any other language besides Arabic. So, my idea is to bring Enlightenment values to Arabs - in their language.

    Consider the Fallible Ideas (FI) website.[2] As far as I know, it has the best explanations advocating Enlightenment values. It helped me understand what's holding the Arabs back, hence these two essays. My plan is to translate the FI essays to Arabic, and then publish them on a website for Arabs to read. And I want to host a critical discussion group for Arabs to discuss these and other ideas amongst each other, and so that they could contribute their own ideas.

    This could spawn a new era of philosophical evolution for Arabs. And if it succeeds, it would mean more mutual benefit for me and other Westerners! It would mean that our worlds will merge, becoming one.

    If you’re interested to help with my translation project, please donate whatever you can at Help the Arab World Embrace Enlightenment Values.[3] Or if you are an English-to-Arabic translator and you want to donate your services, please contact me using the contact page.


    [1] What’s Holding Arabs Back? [GET LINK OF THE MAGAZINE ARTICLE]

    [2] Fallible Ideas website: http://fallibleideas.com

    [3] Help the Arab World Embrace Enlightenment Values [NOT CREATED YET]